Kevin Donnalley: A Mean Football Player

00:00:01 Speaker 1: Kevin Donnelly, a six foot five, three hundred and five pound guard, arrived in Miami with a reputation of being tough, physical, and maybe a little bit nasty. The block for Dan Marino is a different kind of guts yet to meet Jimmy Johnson's Dan Marino. The defense that they had built of wide receivers with Oj, it was just an amazing I think, fulfillment of like, Okay, now I can go somewhere. It's going to get some wins. But you know, I got in that huddle for the very first time and I'm like, I've been working out, I've been doing many camps, training camp, all that deal, and it's game one and I'm like, oh my god, if anyone getting past me to that man number thirteen back there, I will I won't be allowed in the state. I might not be allowed in the southeast, certainly nowhere near Pittsburgh where they love on my Pennsylvania. I was like never again. It was I'm like, man, I'm like, man, can I can I go back? I'm Oji mcdowe in nineteen ninety eight National Football League's receptions leader, and I'm set Levin, a former member of the Miami Dolphins Media relations department. In today's episode of the Fish Tank, Donnelly digs deep into his old journals to share outrageous stories from his Dolphins teams. Hey, DJ Preech, tell him what times you're now diving. I'm a fish take o Jay and this is strictly but I'm true fan Dolphins. Number one one, of course, was to be at fish Tank. Welcome back to the fish Tank right here on the Miami Dolphins podcast Networks Seth Levitt and my main man, O J. McDuffie juice. Today's a special day because we've got two guys, not one, but two guys that were responsible for the Miami Dolphins last day off three. I just wish it wasn't, you know, quite as long ago. But Kevin Donnelly dies into the fish Tank. Kevin, how are you feeling it? Oh? Fantastic. So glad you guys had me on. I got tons of respect for you guys and listened to the podcast that you put out. It's just been great. So I'm glad to be here. But listen, there's gonna be some fun. We're going back a few years, but there's gonna be some things that's the Dolphin fans remember that. I'm looking forward to share. Well, so you talk about remembering, here's what's really cool, juice. When so Kevin and I did a pre interview, which I should have just pressed record because he gave me about an hour of his time. So I think we're on the running clock right now. But you mentioned that you started keeping you were like journaling when you got to Miami. You didn't do it for all the years and we're gonna talk about where you came from and everything, but all the years in Houston, but when you got to Miami, you started journaling. So we're anticipating a pretty clear memory here. Yeah, and you know there maybe some stories, you know, heck, I might have got them wrong because if a bunch of people say it's some other way. But I did write them down. I got quote marks in there, like when something was funny, something was going on, I put the quote marks down. It was that's as good as gold. But I realized when I was at the Houston Oilers and playing with that team and getting to play with Warren Moon and Steve McNair, Eddie, George, Bruce Matthews, Mike Munchak, you know Hall of Fame guys, and I got to the Dolphins, and now it's going to be in charge of helping keep Danburino safe. I'm like, you know, this is something my kids that you know, they had one at the time and one brand new newborn, or my wife was not most pregnant. But I just thought, you know, they're never really going to experience some of this stuff, and I'm going to forget so many things along the way. So I said, I'm just start keeping a journal. So I kind of tiedled at the beginning for my kids and family to enjoy some of my memories from when I played. Well, you say you might have got it wrong right now, it's as accurate as anything that's ever been on this show. Because you sold something down, everybody else is full of shit. I'm holding up like this is my co signer of these books that I'm holding up right now. It's gonna be hard to argue. And I tell you what's going through them. That ninety nine season, I believe, man, there was a ton of stuff just because we had so many characters on the team. Oh, we're gonna te up. We got a lot. We can't wait to get into ninety nine. That's when l you know, like prince right, yeah, yeah, get it in. You know, Kevi, you mentioned, you mentioned, you know, I was blessed to play with you for you know, for three years, and you know we three years in the same huddle, man. But you talk about going back to those but Houston Oiler Yeah, Houston Oiler days, right, you know what I mean. It's not it's not the Texans, it's not the Titans. You know, those are all kinds of the the same branches of a family there. But the Houston Oiler days man, and your first seven years there, you know, ninety one and ninety seven, And you know what I remember most about, like he talked about from those Oiler days, was that you had to protect not one but two. We talked about the second one a little bit, but warn Moon. You had to protect Warren Moon. A Hall of Famer man, how about talk us a little bit about about Warren Moon if you have any great stories, and of course we got to talk about the other hall of family. You just talk about protecting Dan Marino. Yeah, Well, Warren Moon was just absolutely smooth. You know, he hadn't it wasn't the most vocal guy, but he was had such an air and the confidence about him. And he's brilliant. You know, he really knows and understands defenses. And at that time and O J you would have loved this. We ran the run and shoot, and so there was four receivers minimum on the field at all times. That's four that's our standard formation and then a lot of times would even go five wide and to even hammer at home. Even more, the tight end position and fullback position didn't need to exist on our team, Like there was no just in case on goal line, like we threw a tight end or a you know, some other big lineman. In my rookie year, I was a tight end, Like I'm like throwing bones one ball, give me something, but I'm out there blocking, doing deuced blocks and going up to the backers. And I got all of the bad parts of being at the tight end. I never got the I never got any of the love. But that's how the roster was, and so pass blocking was a premium. And listen, I came from North Carolina and we predominantly ran the ball. You know, my senior season we had Patron Means, who actually went to the league and was an absolute stud for the Chargers, and I love blocking for that guy, but we didn't do a lot of pass blocking, so I got indoctrinated to it real quick. And fortunately one of the best things, you know, if anyone's young listening, to be able to just watch somebody that's great at that position and be able to understand the position, learn from them, and learn what their like off the field. And I had a couple of guys and Bruce Matthews and Mike Munchak who went on to be an all of fame. But we're fantastic offensive linemen, fantastic men, and we're just we're great with their families and the role model that I was able to just you know, I didn't tell them at the time, but I basically I just I told my future wife at the time. I was like, I'm just watching them. Whatever they do, I'm going to do it. And so that helped me slowly be able to get into the starting lineup and work my way in the career. But yeah, blocking for Warren Moon was fun. He could he was just great accuracy, great precision, great and everything that he did, and so it was just it was a pleasure to work man, But it was a ton of pressure. Now don't get don't get war and hurt. And I felt that too when I entered the huddle that first time when I was down in Miami, like that was that oh shit moment, like signed, I signed here. I want to play here. There's been so much turmoid with the Oilers at that time because are they move into Tennessee? Are they not moving? Then we decide to move. It's permanent. We're doing it. We set up to play a year and in Houston before we can even go up there, we're playing in front of five thousand fans. It was just the weird stuff going on. I was like, I want to go to a contender. I want to go someplace where I can absolutely get some stuff done. And to me, Jimmy Johnson, Dan Marino, the defense that they had built, the wide receivers with OJ it was just an amazing I think fulfillment of like, Okay, now I can go somewhere that it's going to get some wins. And that was a lot of big reason why I left there. But you know, I got in that huddle for the very first time and I'm like, I've been working out, I've been doing mini camps, training camp all that deal and it's Game one and I'm like, oh my god, if anyone gets past to that man number thirteen back there, I will I won't be allowed in the state. I might not be allowed in the southeast, certainly nowhere near Pittsburgh where they love them up in Pennsylvania. I was ever again. It was I was like, I was like, man, can I can? I can I go back? I got back to Tennessee. But no, it worked out and I was glad we got, you know, three playoff games that season. It was exactly what I was looking for. I hadn't been in the playoffs in a while, and I get down there with with OJ and the fellows on offense, and that defense was balling and we were able to get there, and that gives you a chance. You know what's so crazy about Kevin's Like you talk about a guy yourself that had been in the league for a while, and you still felt that presser when you got another Hall of Famer you know behind you? You know what I mean A lot of times, you know you know that, I know Danny's is that too, but hell you're's that as well, But that presser is still there, no matter Well, when you got one trade behind us. Yeah, And I think you know, the guys that do really well in the NFL and last for a while, or guys that really they feel that anxiety every single game, like someone's hunting for their job, someone's they could be cut at any minute. That you know, you feel that you have to be at your best every single game, and whether you feel like it, your body feels like crap, or you know, the game plan was particularly difficult that week, whatever it is, you're still feeling that pressure. And I the one thing I can tell you that Bruce Matthews played nineteen years in the league, is in the Hall of Fame and absolute stud And I remember asking him on about year thirteen, you know, I'm getting nervous maybe starting my first game or something like that, and I'm like, God, it must be nice to be you, man, You've got all these years in this has just got to be another Sunday for you. And He's like, oh, no, oh no, because every play I'm out there, you know, guys drop off all of a sudden, they decide to retire or get cut. He's like, every day is it's like I'm playing the first play in the NFL you know, it's just I'm that nervous about it, so it kind of put aside. I was like, oh man, this is what I got to look forward to every Sunday. But at the same time I was putting that you put me in a place. I'm like, okay, I get it right. This is the job we picked, this is what we're blessed to do. So many guys want to be here, and that's just part of dealing with the job, and so you know, you just deal with it. But yeah, you know, I had You know, people don't understand the offensive line. We're the only position has someone's health in their hands. You know, we have their livelihood in their hands. And you never want to see the crew come out there with a car, you know, and quarterbacks laying there giving the fist to the crowd saying how I'm gonna be okay. But you're like, oh my god, they're gonna replay this highlighting Kevin Donnelly all over the place, letting somebody walk through their Warren sap or somebody doing some sack dance, and so the fear of that is what drove me every single game to do my best. You know, Kevin, we also had that pressure too off. I've got a guy hide off the edge, you know what I mean. I don't wait yet. Well, I'm gonna be a lot of telling myself, you know, but not like you guys, every single passing player you got that you had that pressure. No, I get it all works together because you guys get open, you do exactly what you're supposed to do. That ball comes out quick, especially with Danny, I mean his release. I'll tell you I'm not too proud to say there's times where I whipped, you know, and I got beat and I looked back and Dan standing there with his arms beside him, you know, like I didn't know where the ball went like he got it through it and it was gone so fast. And sometimes I didn't even get a minus on that block from from the offensive line coach, you know, because it was a great play came out of if something happened real quick, and I was just I was thankful for that because there's no matter what. This is a sport that no one plays the perfect game, and you've got to be mentally tough that you know that happened, you don't let it carry over the next play. And it's same with with juice there. I mean, you drop a pass, you better go find a way to get the next seven catches. Uh, and then suddenly it's a good day. You just can't do dwell on it. But man, there's there's sometimes. Man, Dan helped me out big time. That release was like none other. I was gonna I was gonna ask you about the you know, we're talking we'll talk a little bit of ninety nine and you know, the Rino stuff, and we're talking about that comeback you know versus Indy, you know, right at the top of you know, oh yeah, yeah, the comeback and Indy was one of my favorite time with Danny were we tested on Bob. The ninety nine season was so impressive for a lot of things going on, but that comeback game against Indy was was pretty impressive. Yeah. No, it's you know, when you had him back there, you always knew you had a shot. You know, if there's you know, one of the greatest of all time and great in the fourth quarter and game winning drive. So that gives you a lot of confidence as an offensive line, and you know, you put a game plan in everything's working well, you expect to stick with that game plan. And what's been successful for you. But you know, Seth and I discussed this before we got on this podcast. It was it was one of those moments I'd never been around in my entire career where he had so much weight and authority and no one would question him. And we're fourth and ten. I don't know where we are on the field, but we're trying to get down there. We don't get it, we're done, we lose, and it's fourth and ten and the play comes in from the coordinator, Kippy Brown, and the first thing I hear is Dan, It's like, I this, you know, we're not running if this sort we're doing. I don't know if OJ remembers it, but like that's all I heard. And then next day I'm thinking, okay, if that's not the play, you know, okay, what are we going to do? Blocking wise? And he takes the time that we have to really work out what he's gonna do with the receivers, and he's communicated with og Rande Gadson and said, you know, do this or this different? And you know he wasn't the fastest guy, so we kind of did a little trick him on him, a little slant and go instead of the traditional slant that usually it was his bread and butter, right OJ I mean that he wasn't going dep he wasn't going deep. But man, it was a great play and he still could not run. Anybody got caught before he got to the end zone. But the funniest thing about it, the reason I paid attention to it so much, and it's been such a fine memory of mine, was when when he said that to the play and just go ahead and change it right there on the spot. We got a few minutes seconds to get this snap off and we're going to the line of scrimmage. I'm like, dang, Dann, what's the protection? What do you want? What do you want? And basically he's like, Y'll do whatever the hell y'all need to do. All I need a couple of speed bumps up there, I'm getting rid of all, you know. I felt like, Okay, cool, we'll take ownership this, but at the same time, like we got no control right now. We'll call something. Hope it works, but the back can't you know. Kind of part of that was like we weren't really that needed on that play. The five lineman could have just go to the ground. You know, it's curled up like a ball. He just needed someone to just slow him down for just a half step, and he was getting the ball off and he did. It worked out great. The protection was fine, but I just you know, I'm a guy that worked. I watched film. I want to know everything ahead of time because I wasn't the most gifted offensive lineman. I have to work and scratch and fight for everything I got. And suddenly you're telling me, just go ball, Hey, just work the ball, just get it done, just get it done. I'm like, I don't work that way, man, Like I need to know. I need a plan. What is the play? But we got it done and we won the game. I mean so it was all fun in the locker room afterwards, but it was that was one of those moments. I'm like, man, I've seen it all now. Man, I just saw him override everything. He just casted into that like sixteen years of experience and said, no, I know better. This is my show right now. We're gonna go a winness. And it was so fourth and ten, you guys were at the fifty. There's there's a minute and four I think left on the clock. Juice like a minute and four. So you're right, that's it, Kevin, because that's you know, takeing a knee and they're done. If and and they were there, that dome would have explained on the road. Yeah, on the road. You know, if you don't figure it out, Kevin, and there's a big sack, right, all that stuff happens and aronde forty eight yards. You're right. He got stopped at the two and made up for it by catching the two yard touchdown to wind the thing two boys later. But what an amazing comeback. That's I love that juice. So how many times did you hear him just f that and change the story? Dude? A lot of times, man, a lot of times. But you know, I like what Kevin was talking about. A lot of times. At least he went to a protection. He might say, right, I give it a give protection at least, you know what I mean. But when when you don't have a protection and you just called something off tough like he did, sometimes at least be like like early office, Kippy's office is a little different than what we had before that. Before that, you know, we'd have a ninety series, a seventy series, So you can say you know, tell the line. Tell Kevin right, seventy protection, ninety protection. No, we can do whatever on the outside. Yeah, well when you don't give us, just tell him round. If that around, do you do this? So then you gotta be like, well shit, what the what's the protection that work? It's a five step? Three step is it? You know what I mean? It's a seventh step? What is this? What's going on here? So I get where he's coming from. Well, now, I think I think Dan knew he was going to him, so he didn't really care about anybody else, and he knew to be the ball would be gone quick. So I wish I had thought of that at the time, like, Okay, we're all cool here. But there was three seconds of pure panic, pure panic, wondering if this isn't really gonna work out? And you know what else, Kevin, I mean, we're in hurry of hurry. That's always pure panic. Yeah, you know what I mean, It's like it, I mean, there's everything's like running through your mind, you know. And of course defense is going to bring some stuff you know, that are going to try to, you know, take you off chills and blitz system over whatever it might be. So the panic is always there in two minute. But this dude was like, look, we're good. I can't imagine what the play I was called, Kevin, but he overrode. You know, I can't imagine what the hell it was. You know, well, I knew I as good as that's sure, I do inside out what the play was supposed to be that was called by Kippy Brown. I was all over that play. This man. I was flying blind. It's so good that it is so good. So so that's what the transition from Warren Moon to Dan Marino was like. But you also had a couple of big personalities as head coaches. So talk about the transition of going from Jeff Fisher to Jimmy Johnson, because those are also two different dudes, oh completely, you know, and both won a bunch of games. You know, obviously JJ had incredible success both in college and in the pros with winning Super Bowls. But you know, Jeff Fisher was very much a player's coach, and he really seemed to have the pulse of the team. He was always, you know, kind of knew what was going on with guys when they needed a break, when they needed to be pushed, and I think you know, someone that played in the league, played on that Bears defense and was around them. You know, he that was his forte. But yeah, it was. It was very much. It was a lot more relaxed personality, but could find ways to motivate players and get the best out of him. Now with Jimmy Johnson, OJ, we all know, like the world knows that dude. Man, he keeps his thumb on you all the time, and it's you never felt like your job was safe. But there were clear, you know, visions and goals that he had for this team. And I always felt like, you know, as much as I felt like any day you could get cut because it was kind of the world you live in. Basically, you produce, you're on the roster. You do not have to worry about some of that stuff. Just produce. Just do your job, do it the very best you can. You know, you start to worry when you're counting roster spots and you're making mistakes and you're giving up sacks or anything like that that you know, that's when the real worry comes in. But man, if you're producing, I mean, Jimmy put his arm around he'd loved you, he'd love on you as much as possible, but there's times where and he could be fun. Like I know a lot of people say things about Johnson, how tough he could be. But I don't know if OJ remembers this, but I'm sure you do. But it was during that ninety nine season, and that was when J. J. Johnson, the running back, got in a fight with Kevin Gogan and they had pistacofts. JJ was a young player. Okay, I'll set the stag here, right. It's a walk through before an upcoming game, so it's got to be a Friday, maybe even a Saturday light walk through, Like we're just going through the motions just to do it. And you know, JJ's anxious. He's a young player. He's getting in there. He wants to make sure it's assignments are right. So he's being, you know, kind of full speed through this when everyone else is kind of going seventy percent, And you know, hit Gogan a couple of times and bumped into him, and so they kind of exchanged words and then really felt JJ said something to him that that Gogan felt disrespected. And you know, you don't disrespect Gogan now, Like that's because he'll he'll target you from then on for a long time in the locker room, making fun of you. He's gonna make your life hell. But they got into a fight right there in the middle of walk through day before a game. So it's just this crazy scene. And I bring it up because it's the after effects of it, you know. Coach Johnson dressed us down in a meeting, saying, I can't believe this happened. He did with the offense first, and I think the whole team, like, we can't have this kind of stuff going on. We need to be closed, we need to be together. You know, the player led teams are the ones that are the ones that are gonna win and get through tough times and all that. And I'm not sure, I like, if memory serves, I got the journal here, but I'm thinking we might have gone to play Oakland or something after that week. But JJ, this is J. J. Johnson rushed for eighty yards and on twenty carries, and JJ said, you know game ball that we always do in the meeting after a win. He's given out game balls for the guys that really performed well. He gave one to J. J. Johnson. Then he made Kevin Gogan go up there and give it to J. J. Johnson. It was uncomfortable writing for a minute, and he's sitting there. He makes them give him the game ball. Then the whole team in the auditorium just start screaming out, Hug, Hug, Hug hug. So they were both reluctant, but it's like the whole team's yelling for and they hugged it out, you know, And I think things are pretty good after that. But that, to me, I was like, those were the memories that it slipped my mind. I was going through the journal, like I mentioned, I keep and I saw that just that hug hug, hug, and everybody laughed. It was It was fun and it it really diffused a situation. It was brilliant by by coach Johnson. You know, it's one thing to give a game ball, but then to use that moment to bring everybody back together make sure there was nothing, you know, lasting effects from that. It was pretty cool. Yeah, and that's how we you know, you really had a treat in the locker room. Man. You know, you can't let anything like that fester man. It will destroy a whole locker room for forever. Man. So and then at that point, somebody's got to go. So they hugged it out, right, that's right, because they're good. I mean, they're both really good players, you know, and they're they're both guys that that earned a lot of respect in that locker room. So it's when we've got two guys that possibly might have a beef that been for them to work it out, and you're right, harm any above all. You know, there's gonna be disagreements, but you gotta keep harmony and keep the team goal in mind. Yeah, no doubt. You know, Kevin, another guy you came across in Houston who who would later meet I was back again in Miami, was offensive line coach Larry Beckel. Oh yeah, now I'm say you know, you know, you know, most old line coach there's notoriously they're characters. They're definitely characon and Beck had to be one of the all time great characters, you know, of all time in the league league's ever seen. Yea, from what I was saying, even though beck on to coach you for like a season in Houston, he came looking for you. Yeah, you know, he came looking for you when you were free agent ninety eight. So I'd love to hear that story. How did that go down with him coming to find you? And uh? And also I heard you do a hell of a Larry becktel I personation, so I need all that information from the Kevin Okay, well listen. You know when when Larry Beckel came to Houston, it was a good time. I was. I was trying to really go from being a guy who was playing in the NFL and trying to excel and and become a player that you know that I want to be. And he was such a master of teaching technique assignment football. It was great to have this guy that basically everyone has this assignment on every play and when things adjust, this is what it just if you studied your playbook, you knew what to do and there wasn't a lot of gray area. And gray areas the worst part for an offensive lineman because it just makes you hesitate. It's not any position you have to hesitate to process by just point one of a second. It can mean the difference in you know, having a dominating block and giving up a sack. So it's I really appreciated that. And he was hard. I mean, he was hard on me, but if you also, you know, at the same time, it's everyone always goes back, and those are the guys you want to thank as coaches, you know, the ones that were the hardest on you and really pushed you to be as best you could be. And so when I went when I was a free agent, and you know, after going all that stuff with the Oilers and having to move the team to Nashville, and I just like, you know what, I can be reunited with this great staff with coach Becktel, I want to be there. So I was all in. You know, I had other trips planned as a free agent, but you know, went there first because I wanted it to be the right fit. And it really was for me, it was. It was great. But Big Beck. When you tell a story about Big Beck, you have to preface it while you know he was a smoker and so obviously couldn't do that around the team at all. So he'd come in at every meeting and had like not just one nicotine patch, but like a nicotine patch on each arm, probably one on his neck. Plus he had two or three as a like nicotine gums going at all times. So he's chewing oar at the whole time, his glasses down. It's big beckhair, baby, all right, let's go. He did these chair drills and he's making it sit in chairs, like starting offensive lines in a chair, the second team offensive lines in a chair, and then he kind of lines up some chairs at the defense and to save our legs, he'd let us sit down. But he's like, I want to see your first two steps. First two steps, babe, all right right here, and he could spot. He's like the guy his third team offensive left tackle. He took one wrong step. When he's like said, hut, and he does the two steps, he's take it. He kind of paused and he's like, the fuck's going on back there? I didn't look right, call me your step? Shoving your step again. He could see all, he knew all. He's nicotined up. It's just it was always on for him. And plus you combine that with the waddle. He's kind of waddling around. He got double knees, sleeves on, baggy shorts, baggy shirt. It's just he was a character. But man, he really was one of the coaches I look at and really made a difference in my career. Point too, I have nothing but the utmost respect for him. He was He was amazing for me, and I like my time with him. But man, you know, I'll tell you. I'll tell you one story. It's not a Dolphin store, but I was with the Houston Oilers and we say in a dorm for training camp at San Antonio. That's where we always there a training camp. And we're out there and he's coming through the dorm and it's getting close to cut day. And so a guy played with for several years, John Flannery, He's in the suite next to me. We share the bathroom, and then I'm in the next room. But we could always hear what's going on, and we'd always tell each other, Hey, sign to get up, let's go to breakfast. We always looked out for each other. But I'm getting ready and all of a sudden, i hear knock and I'm like, oh, my gosh, is that at my door? Is at my door? I hear another knock. I'm like, it doesn't sound like I think it's John's door. Then there's a third knock. He's like, Hey, John Flannery, he in there, He in there. Flannery had been around enough. First words out of his mouth he's like, John Flanner, are you in there? What's going on? All I hear is ah fuck. The Beck says, I know, beg it's big Beck here, let me in, And then I left. I knew he got the speech. He's getting gout. It's not it's not funny, but it's funny. He's like, right, And we actually signed the guy back after a while because some guys got injured. So it worked out great for every everybody's happy again. It's all good. It all worked out, and Flannery went on to be an important player force with that Houston Oilers team. But like that, just in a nutshell summed up back right there. You know, he's like he got break, some bad news, but somehow it made it funny to me. I'm laughing on Jay Knows immediately took it like one thing had settled down. And maybe even after we signed Flannery back, I brought it up in the locker room and like everyone wanted me to tell the story all the time, tell us, tell us, tell about when he got on the door till again, go on down, Big Back. He loved, he loved the columnsself, Big Back. He also loved in practice, like in two minute drill or something. If the offense scored, he'd start marching, singing the band you ever hear Dan, he would sing the fights. I'll tell you my dolphin career with the Houston Oilers. So in Houston, after every time that we'd score, they played a song that would absolutely drive me crazy. Houston's got the Oilers, the greatest football team. We run and pass and score like no ones ever seen. And one of the small things I thought about when I left the Oilers to go to the Dolphins. I was like, man, I'm done with that song. No you're not, buddy, No IDEA first game at home, you know, probably some seventy yard bombed o J and in still to celebrate. All I can think of was like, And my wife said the same thing. She's in the stands watching. We talked about after the game. Miami's got the Dolphins gis football team, and I'm like, Colloden Towns have the same song. Who had at first? What's going on? It's not happening right now? This is where am I? Man? Oh I love it. I hope you found out. So the Dolphins had it first, right well? They were oh man, yeah, there's there's some fan wars on that, but it definitely was the Dolphins song. First. I don't think the guy who wrote it got the I don't think he was commissioned or got the royal teas that he was hoping for. So he went down the block and slide to your oilers. So you got it, you got the double dip. Oh, that's hilarious. Can you imagine that? Choose? He we just scored myself and Kevin's looking out like, what the Oh that's a would be funny, too good, too good. Well, listen, if we're talking about Larry's there's another one we have to bring up. And as you said, we had a great conversation in preparation for this interview, and I was surprised at how many times the name Larryzzo came up. I figured we'd get a lot of you know, talk about the Tim Ruddy. He's the Mark Dixons guys that you play. You know, you were in the same room, with same huddle with Issos on the other side of the ball. But you had some classic Larryzo stories, which I guess anybody who's played with Larry Izzo has some classic Larry Izzo stories. But it was almost like you opened up the journal and right away Larry was jumping off the page. Yeah. Well, for me, it was early on. You know, we did the training camp out in San Diego, and I know they's been talked about on the show numerous times, but it's that it was the eating challenge between him and Gray Rugemer that ensued because basically, we got there early, the rooms aren't ready, and so what you have is a room full of guys with a lot of money and nothing else to do. There's so somehow it gets floated that this food challenge comes up because there's the room is ready and set for dining, but we're not eating dinner for maybe another hour or so. But they got all the condiments out on this table. Everything's out there, and you know, long story short, it comes down to, like, you know, all right, it's gonna be eat off between Larry Izzo and Gray Rugemer and one guy. You know, Larry's got the mustard, Gray's got the mayonnais, which is just sickens me even to think about. But this room I couldn't believe, like, and it wasn't just them, Now, there was other challenges that came up after that. And before that there were things that happened, but that was the main That was the that was the lead on the Doctor Bent. One of the thoughts I always remembered. It was like three and four people deep gathered around this table like everybody's in. I'm seeing side money changing hands, I'm seeing bets being stalled on the table. I mean, it's like a thousand bucks on the table. Wherever wins it, which Larry did. I just think that he had the advantage man that, whether you like him or not, that there's just more viscosity to that, to that mustard. It could go down a lot smoother than that. I mean, it's just pure fat in that manase you know, sorry to Dukes and Helmon's and all those people out there, but damn, I mean that's just nasty. And so they're going at it, and you know it's a Lary ends up winning that thing. But it's just another one of those instants, like nothing like that had really happened any team I was on with the Oilers, and it was one of those deals like coming to mind, it was a little bit of a culture shock, and I think it probably was for Larry and some other guys on the team too, because I like I remember in the locker room and hearing the store about Larry. He and Zach had gone down to Miami to do some kind of a coaching clinic and it was really about special teams, and Zach Thomas was still fairly young in his career, so we did some things on special teams, and so he take him down. This clinic was paying them for that or whatever. But I think the story goes and OJ can correct me, but they drove down in Westoff's car and he had a convertible, and so they go down there, they do this whole thing, and they're driving back and they hit ninety five traffic and you know, the air conditioner can't keep it cool enough. They're stop and go traffic. So he ends up, you know, take him top down, getting it all the way down. Then they're so hot, like Larry, everybody took their shirts off, and so somebody spotted them on the highway and they see the special Teams coach and Larry and Zach all shirtless driving in a a convertible coming back up the facility from down in South Beach somewhere, and it just the stories just grew after that. And the hell that they got in the locker and was just unbelievable. It's just that's suddenly that's the world I was thrown in from being because the team moved from Houston, Houston and Nashville. Houston in Nashville can be very conservative towns, you know, and now it's it's now holds barred man Miami's. I mean, I'm like, what is going on? This is just lifestyle. Every day I'm hearing something. Somebody's got a beat store. Listen. When I first moved down there, we had a brand new newborn and I had a baby daughter. It was like two and a half and so the best thing I could do was like, let me just keep the two and a half year old out of my wife's hair so they can get moved in. Her mom was there watching the newborn, so I'm like, just just get time away. I didn't know anything about Miami, so I just got a house out in Weston. We were like three gates away from Dan Marino because like to get into country club, you gotta go through a gate, and then if you want to go visit Dan. So I'm in that part. But then you have to go visit Dan you got to go in another gate of like all the richest of the rich, right, and then Dan had a gate at his proper like he couldn't deal with that, you know, the guys that had five six million dollar homes, Like that's just the riff raff he had to keep out from his own neighborhood was just incredible. But I know nothing about it. So I just put my daughter in the trip in the car. It's like nine in the morning. I just drive straight west and so I'm basically writing in the heart of Fort Lauderdale. I'm right in that area, and the beach is empty. I'm like, this is great, this is great. We'll just be out of here playing. I don't have to worry about anything. And then slowly, you know, a couple of hours go by, the daughters still doing strong. It's about eleven o'clock and a lot of women start coming out on the beach and I'm like, that's just weird. You know, it's not weird. I know, I'm looking around like, oh my gosh, look at this. This is unbelievable. And so they're about twelve o'clock. I mean, it's just packed with mostly women out there, and you know they're half dressed, they're laying out doing all this stuff. Luckily my daughter doesn't know a thing. I'm just trying to keep focus straight ahead, like I'm happily married. I've been married thirty three years and I love my wife, and nothing was gonna make me straight. Like I'm good to go, I'm collide. At the same time, I'm questioning what is going on here? So anyway up, to make a long story short, I went back to the facility and I'm like, gosh, you know, I'm just learning the area and all this stuff. And they's like, well, what beach did you go to? And I was like, I told him exactly where I was. And they're like, oh my god. Like there's all these strip clubs all around there, and that's all the strippers. You know, they work at night, they sleep in about eleven twelve o'clock, they all go out to the beach. That's who's out there the whole time. And I'm like, I guess it makes sense. I had no idea. You guys gotta help me out. That gives it makes sense. So I'm like, where's the family beach out? And everyone's struggling to figure it out. Because no one wants a family beach. Like everybody's down the team like you're a dolphin and it was a heyday. Now you're a dolphin. You were a big time and these guys were finding the beach to go to because there was there was a lot of talent down there. So anyway, I chose poorly. I did fess up to my wife. I was like, you know, I'm started this happening. You might hear it because the locker room, you're supposed to be sacred, but somebody's gonna talk to somebody. Oh yeah, You're husband's the one that was down Stripper Beach was her two year old daughter. Of course she fit right here because she just had like bottoms on and a diaper, you know or something. He's topless two. So it's like that's the norm, man, right, you know where to go with it? So she said, So she's in the mid twenties now, Kevin. It's funny. She's she's a physicians assistant now and she's working down to Charlotte and she's great with I mean, she grew up with football. She's the oldest of my three kids. I have a son, two sons. One they're twenty seventh, daughter, twenty five, and twenty three. So it's you know, it's great now to think back because I can. I can remember like a training camp. I got a great picture with my son. He ran up to me right after practice and I'm in full pads because it was great that families were always welcome, you know, and oj Can attests you know this, and so we're just giving each other a big kiss. And they got the Miami Harold. It was like on the front page, and I was like, man, this is awesome. You know, I got this keepsake to have with my son or whatever. But then like the next day, Gogan replaces Donnley at right guard. You know, it's just the headline of sports. And it was one of those things, you know, he was brought in really a security because Mark Dixon was gotten hurt. A line had some neck injuries and growing and some different things. And when he was playing, he's a baller. He's the best guy on the offensive line probably you know him and Webby, but sometimes you just were going to be there. So we need some assurance. We brought Gogan in and so there was you know, it made competition for the job tough. But it was just one of those that's a business. Like. One day, man, you can be on top of the world and you're just like, I'm on the team, I'm loving Miami, got my son here, got a picture in the paper, and you know, two days later it's you know, luckily they weren't that old. They'll be asking like, oh, daddy lost his job. What are we gonna do, there's no food, we can't live anywhere. Yeah, that's crazy, man. We're gonna talking about Gogan a little bit. Man. I want to go back to San Diego. I want to go back to Izo, you know, because always it's always a place. So if you know, I had a little running with Izel and we talked about it right on the podcast. Yeah what I mean? So, but I also understand that you got a little running with Izzo too. I'm Sligo. Well getting ready for saying getting ready for Yeah. Well, there's a couple of stories really with Izzo. We were getting Red play them in a regular season game against San Diego, and he was in heaven because they basically just said, Okay, Larry, you're in the scout team defense, you have carte blanche. Whatever you want to do. Do it. That's what Junior say. How does he just he picks in times, he's heady, he knows what's coming. Shoot through the B gap, shoot through the A gap, do whatever you gotta do. And I mean Larry was in heaven. He was. He channeled say out for those three practices that week, and it was probably the last padded practice. Like, I'm sick of it. I'm sick he's made the offensive line. Our work that week was hell and it's all Larry's fault. He's like, I was just doing my job. Man, I want to keep my job. I don't want to get shut Like I get that part of it. But in a fuel of rage, I'm blocking or whatever. And I see all he's getting ready to come through this gap. He's going to try and embarrass us again. And really, the best angle I have the only thing I could really do to stop him, I just went it's an unwritten rule. You don't do this in practice. You never do this, not to your own team. I went right for the meetcaps and cut him down, and I never felt better. I'm like, maybe a little twins of guilt. I saw he was okay, but I got up. I'm like yeah, take that, mother effort. So but you know that day wears on. You go back, have launch, you do your afternoon meetings. And I'm getting ready to head out to go home, and I can hear somebody screaming their ass off. They're just going to town mad at somebody, like damn, somebody's about to get it. And then he comes walking down the hall and he spots me, and I see it's Larry, and he's like, damn. Like when that happened, I thought you just tripped, man, I thought you just sell And I helped you up, and I was telling you it's okay, Hey, everybody, no one's heart, it's all good with teammates, everything's fine, you mother effort. He said that last word I heard was him mother ff And me I said, I can't. I'm done. This guy's got the eye of the tiger. He is zoned in right now. He is in for blood. He wants me. There's nothing I can do. I'm zoned out. I'm ready to go home and decompressed. I ran to my car. I just I just bolted out those side security doors, ran to the car, jumped in Florida, went home. Didn't really think about it. And we had some words about it. The next day he was he was okay with it because Larry's Larry. He understood, like, that wasn't something he was gonna like, you do that to Timbo or GARYL. Gardner or somebody like that. Now you got another thing coming, you know, you better look, you better run, and eyes on the back of your head because it's it's coming. It might be a sneak attack, it might be full front, but whatever it is, you're gonna get your due. Larry was good about He forgave me, and so well, we can't talk about is though without also talking about the Dolphins newest member of the Pro FOOTB Hall of Fame you mentioned earlier, Zach Thomas. You know, if we're going to talk about this ninety nine season, the last game of that season took place January second, two thousand, So we we had to make that trans that transformation from ninety nine to two thousand. Anybody who's old enough to remember, we know that that was y two K hysteria. Oh yeah, so you have a great memory from you can tell you know, I know we left early because the team we were not going to get stuck in South Florida when when the whole world shut down with Y two K, we had to get up to the DC area early. Yeah, Y two K was big. Now looking back, it's funny, but I mean legit people were really concerned the markets were going to crash, computer systems down, just the end of civilization as we know it today, and playing everybody guy, you know, like, I mean, I'll tell you what the world was was coming to an end. When New Year's Eve had up in the next morning, you wake up and there's no record keeping whatsoever, and it's just like we're going back to the dark ages. So there was enough legit info that it felt like, okay, we want to need to try and avoid anything we can, and and football you just want to it's so much unpredictable can happen during the game. You want to make sure that everything you can't control you control. So Jimmy Johnson had the idea, let's go up two days early since we're playing New Year's Day or day after New Year's so it's okay, so let's go up two days early on that thirty first, and then whatever happens for Y two K, we'll just live through it. Through the hotel. We're playing the Redskins Slash Commanders. We're up in Washington, so it's just unheard of we leave two days early for an East coast game. It's not like we're going out west, but we're up there. And so the first night, guys are going out, you know, we had a curve few. It was like one o'clock. Guys are going out. Not me. I'm the old dude, man, I gotta take care of my damn body. I think a rented Blair Witch project or something like that in the hotel says, because I'm as hell the rest of the night. I did that to myself. But there's this huge commotion on my hallway right before curfew. It's like twelve fifty or something, and it's yelling, it's banging, there's guys playing music, having a good old time and the best recollection. It was like a group of dbs that had all gone out. There's by some wide receivers with him. I know how y'all roll. I'm sure OJ was with. So I'm kind of like interested, like this interrupted my sleep, what's going on out here? And right when I opened my door, I looked down there and no reason hell they're having a great time. They don't care about anything. Larry Izzo and Zach Thomas room together. They both come bursting out of their room mad as hell. I mean, just what's going on, complaining bits and keep it down. I'm trying to get my rest and all this stuff. But the thing was, it wasn't intimidating whatsoever. Nobody was even thinking about doing anything they wanted to do, because they both came out in just their underwear and in the way it looked and the way they stormed out, and like the matching white briefs. You're like everybody's laughing at and like, well, are y'all sleeping together in there? You're in the same bed, you're tucked in all this kind of stuff. And then finally one of the guys said, man, it's just like a damn old married couple coming out of there, fitching at the DBS. I'm just again, it's one of those things like I've never been on a team like this, and it was just there was so much personality to everybody. It's just even made Y two k in the panic that was about to ensue. I'm like, this just happened here at a hotel This is hilarious. I'm glad you brought it up, Bead, because it's Zach deserves that Hall of Fame. Man. I was a good guy that asked him who should be in at different writers that I've been associated with in Houston and Nashville and Miami and Charlotte, and they always giving these ballots to get my take. And he's been on there ever since he was eligible because he was. What made him so great was his brilliance at the game. I mean, he knew what you were going to do before you even knew it. And but then he didn't know what was going on that night. He did not have any vision of that. He had not watched film on what was getting ready to go down in the hallway and how they plunked him right in front of everybody, and they knew the story got told, you know, couple, I mean it just became uh they're saying that had to make them even more mad. You know that they came out there were trying to be tough guys. They thought they'd sell it down. All they did was fire him up even more until Brad Rollers somebody came around and did the bed check. All bowed up like he just did eighteen cents of betch press. All right, so a lot of talk of nineteen ninety nine. But since we went through, why two k I'm gonna bring us out of the nineties and let's get into the two thousands here, Kevin, and I'm sure all the young people listen are just cracking up. But we're gonna we're gonna fast forward right to Christmas Eve two thousand. We're at New England, all right, got thirty something degrees. It's one o'clock game, but it's like thirty something degrees because it is Christmas Eve. You know, another come from behind victory, or we think it is. Alindo hits his forty nine yard field goal. There's fifteen seconds left to play. Uh, you know, balls kicked off and Bledsoe's running around, scrambling, trying to do some kind of crazy thing. Ball comes out, fumble, We recover it. We all march off the field, celebratory. You know. In the locker room there, Dave's getting his thoughts together. Hey, he's gathering everybody out and he's about to give his speech, and he's like he's trying to get everybody's attention, and you know, that tiny little locker room and then someone starts banging on the window, Kevin, someone starts banging on the window. I look over and it's it's the referee. It's Johnny Greer, and he's like, hey, you guys got to come back out here. Dave looked like he saw a ghost. Look us through. What the rest of you guys were thinking, and then the decision you made in that moment as we went back out on the field. Oh yeah, listen, I think thinking about that. What started that is that locker room was so small, and the game got over and it's freezing, and like, I love the heat, man, I couldn't I couldn't wait for one hundred and five degree gag because does deed linemen would melt. I mean, fourth quarter, it's like blocking dummies when you go up in the cold. And my skin had gotten thin, and I just know we got to win. We played a good game. I'll head right to a hot shower. That's all I could think about. Man, Just get get in because there's probably like three of them. No I wanted to get in there, so I immediately start undressing, and so I'm pretty much totally undressed and got a towel around me, and basically that whole news goes down and we got to go back out on the field to finish up one second from the fifty yard line. Whatever the play was we got, it was technically not over and everyone has to come back out to the field. So I'm like no, like somebody had to get me to go out there because everyone had gone out there. And I'm thinking, well, I'm just you know, hey, if there's what's it matter if there's only fifty two guys out there, you know, it's fifty three fifty two. I'm just gonna hang in here wood counting. I'm getting ready to getting the shower, you know. But someone came through. It was like no, everybody, everybody has to get out. So I started saying, well, I'm not even dressed this and this. We better put something on. So I just threw my shoulder paths I think back on or I have a jersey and get a sweatshirt. Okay, So I threw that on. I still had the towel around me, and then I threw on my cleats untied, you know. So it's a bare minimum and I didn't they used to get on the field, so I didn't go to our sideline. I just stood there in the tunnel and waited for that last play to go through. And you know, looking back now, I'm like, let's just pure insanity. But just in that moment, I'm just like that, I don't know, I just bowed up. I said, no, man, this is not fair. This game should be over by now, and I gotta get redressed by tears, all sweaty. I'm not doing it, I refused. I was being like a little stubborn three year old, you know, no, no, no, no no. But luckily, no fines from the NFL. I don't think I even heard anything from from coach about it and anything like that. But I think back, you know, we finished this game, the whole teams on that one sideline. Luckily, mostly attention was the defense because they're the ones that had to get back out there. So they were the ones that were truly truly pissed off, and so, you know, as mad as I thought I was, they were the ones that were you know, I did feel sorry for later on having to do that, but luckily we got that way. But at that picture, you can imagine, yeah, just a blue dolphin sweatshirt tower wrapped around me, a couple of muddy cleats on my feet, just standing on my hands on my hips, probably just watching out there, and I was like, let's just get it over, get it done. O thirty something degrees and all. Yeah, it was that towel. That was funny, Remember that, man. I was fully dressed already at that point, you know, and I really sometimes, you know, I was listening to ones. I started getting done, you know, getting ready, getting the star wanted talking. You know, a win. Right after a win, it's lighter anyway, Let's let's get in say our stuff, get on the plane. Much lighter man, much lighter man. You know, there's another game you know that season I want to talk about Kevin. This is the open around the playoffs in that year, and we're hosting the Coats, a game that we talked about the other day with another guest we had, which was blacked out locally, by the way. We didn't tell enough tickets for him, man, but we you know, we talked about this game a lot on a lot of our episodes, especially what are Smith had done, you know, and he had incredible performance, ending with that seventeen yard touchdown running over time. You know, send us into the next amount of playoffs. But Lamar was grinding all game. Man. You talked a little bit about playing with you know, Warren Moon and having the pass block all the time. You're having a Natron means and in colleagues, you know, where it was a lot probably a lot better for you. But this game here, Lamar had forty carries for you know, two nine yards. You know, the forty carries. That means that you guys were getting it done. Man, you guys are doing all that work up front. Man, So what do you remember about that day in that game? Well, I'm sure it was probably a beautiful day just to start with. But when it's when it's eighty five or eighty three still, even though it's into January there right, you know, it's still warm. So to me, that's you're gonna wear some defensive linemen out. So when we got that running game going early, we stuck with it. We have a power running game. I know it probably wasn't a fun day for you, but man, that's when you've really getting the flow and you really start to be able to tire those guys out, you know, make them want to give up. In the fourth quarter and it was still touch and go, obviously with an overtime game, but it's one of my favorite games because of the way lamarket. I mean, he was physical, he could run, he was just just did a brilliant job of what we asked him to do. And I had two games where there's been walkoff touchdowns and overtime games, and so those are my most fun because and that was the first one, just thinking, let's getting field goal position, let's getting field goal position, and you know, send a kicker out there, let's getting this thing done and move on to the next round, you know, and that's all you really want, and for it to happen at the time of My first take was it's almost a shock, like we just won the game. We just won the game. And I really think I was trying to figure out my notes and everything that I kept, but I think this is the game, Like everybody comes running off the sideline because you know, we were It wasn't like a field goal situation. You're going to celebrate the kicker. But when a guy runs for one and closed the game out and it's a walk off deal, like game over, everybody's running off the sideline. It goes back to Iszo, like I was so fired up about it, and I was blocking dudes all day and long, like I just went full hit to the chest on Larry like he's trying to give me a hug, and like, I don't know why I did it. But then I just kept celebrating with Trace arms Strong and whoever would come around. You know, it was coming off the sideline because like we were the heroes, man, the defense didn't have to go back out there. We won the game as as much love as you're gonna get from all the other guys on the sideline. Those fun but I remember the next day, Larry's like, bro, man, bro, like why'd you hit that? Man? Like that really hurt? You know, that messed me up. I didn't know it, like I'd done something wrong before, because he's truely he just he cares like that. Basically had to tell him like, nah, I just I just did that out of joy. Man. Sorry, like man kind of ruined my celebration. Man, I'm sorry, you know, I apologize, Like I said, Man, that those are specially when you get to walk off. It's not to settling for a field, goaling hope and everything executed right, and you get that game one. Hey, by the way, now I went to Penn State. Now I don't mind blocking for some touchdowns. Now, No, and listen what I loved about that particular year. I know, you guys are doing your jobs and the best receivers that hang around the longest, these guys were affected the block. You know, we were transitioning from you know, Dan was getting later in his career and we had to really depend on the run game and it's a five yard or seven yard game turns into a big time play or even a touchdown when the receivers do their job. I think my appreciation for that. You know, when you're early in your career, you're just fighting for you like, just don't get beat, just do your job. And then you start to see the aspect of your group. You know, okay, the offensive line, I want to do well as a group or with juice, you know, the wide receivers do well as a group. And then you're starting to see the offense and the bigger picture and how everybody plays an integral role, whether it's a pass or run. You've gotta be you gotta be on point for neel downplay. The best playing football right and the victory victory formation and get it right right up right right. But yeah, definitely no. I know, shoot my munch ak. The Hall of Famer I mentioned was from Penn State, and that's a different breed when you go to that school. Now there's a certain amount of toughness. Well, Kevin, that last story is the perfect segue to our final segment of the show, which is the fish Tank two minute drill. Uh. Much like the story you told at the beginning of the show, we're changing the play. You don't know what the protection is. That's okay. I think you're gonna figure it out all right. Not to make you nervous at all, but this is our first video. Like I just looked at my like I have a full head in the camera here, Like if you if you play this video, like, people are gonna know what I had for breakfast. It's stuck in my teeth here. Don't worry what the what it actually looks like when when the guys get it for video, it's it zoomed out more. This is just so you can see it on the screen. You know, I can't do anything about your head, but the camera will be a little bit better That's the thing I learned, man, when when I lost I lost sixty pounds after I stopped playing football, And you don't lose it in your head, like it just becomes bigger, bigger. Man. I think I'm getting any smaller beat my head. Man's still I wear sixteen still, and I've got this big ass head. Well, we'll see if that big ass head can get you through this two minute drill. All right, So we're just gonna we're gonna throw some questions at you, all right, So, Kevin, the modern NFL loves analytics, but when you were with the Dolphins, we had one player who loved complex math problems more than anyone else. And he was a big guy and he was on the other side of the line. Daryl Gardner. Yeah, that dude every time we got two minutes shares. So I'll tell a quick this guy every time I passed him in the locker room, like, Daryl, Man, you look like you're fired up for this game. You know what. I wear a side sixteen shoe. I waited in at three ten today and I had soup for breakfast. You do the math. You do the math, and tell me if I'm gonna win this game today. I love it. Do the math? Heard that for sure? Next to you? Card to one dude, Yeah, hey, hey, you know what. Okay, my wife a kiss on the right cheek instead of left cheek. And then I saw the sun rise this morning. Plus he divided that by one. Do the math and Kevin, you're getting two sacks out of me today. All right, I did the math, thanks, Daryl. All right, okay, Kevin, all right, you love the good joke in the locker room. But who laughs harder and everyone else's jokes, Tim Bowens or Richmond Webb, that's dead equal to me. Both those guys. Now, like Richmond and Tim, they get they get the hand up near the map and they're just laughing quietly. And it's that that's the quiet co sign of whatever joke's going on. They're gonna laugh so hard like there's time some stuff wasn't even funny, like it was about me, and my locker was right next to Ruddy and Richmond Webb, and I'm sitting there and the joke's not even funny, and it's been played on me and those two, especially Webb. He's just laughing and laughing, trying to keep the thing going the whole time like it's the funniest joke he's ever heard in his life. I call him out on He's like, no, no, no, I'm trying to do that, and Tim like I could hear him. This was the next locker over, Like I've never really heard him talk a whole lot. But man, that dude had a laugh and his soul was getting slammed on that other side of lockers someways getting put down because he was laughing it up. So it's a push. It sounds like it's a push juice, all right, Next question, And I hope I don't ruin our friendship over this one, since we just got reconnected here. Your fellow lineman had an interesting nickname for you that I never understood. Tell us the history of doing all right? Doing It started I think with Larry Bechtel when I was with the Houston Oilers, and so then I thought it was dead. After he had left, people with the Oilers still called me doing But I thought, you know, all right, I'm leaving for another team. I'm going to play in South Beach and be a part of this Dolphin's franchise and I'm gonna leave that behind. But Unfortunately Bechtel you know, was there and brought that whole thing up again. But basically, I'd do whatever it took to win a play. And this was during an era where like picking dbs off that were near a pile, like that's cool, man, that's cool, Like no flags for that. You know, you've got caught standing around. You don't get got you know, and I got got too, but I'd like to get mine. And so they're like, dangn Like you're mean man, like like evil jokes on people. You're not nice at all. You do these all this stuff that's mean. So then suddenly Bechtel. I never knew this character, and I watched wrestling growing up. I was a big fan of WWF wrestling at the time wweight and there was a character named doing the Evil Clown, and so he was the clown that would he'd come out there and regular clown has got a big bucket of water and he's gonna throw it on the little kids in the front row. But it's like regular clowns they do it. It's just full of confetti. Oh, it was funny. It was a sister surprise, but like doing the Killer Clown there, like it was real water, and there's like kids crying on the front row, and it's like, like he was just mean. There's me and so Beckel saying that you're just a mean football player, like you've got something personal against everybody on the field. It's like, well, that's the way I gotta play. You know. I needed an edge every single game, and you know, to me, it was there was nothing more fun than picking guys off a linebacker, trying to get an extra hit on a running back or especially a wide receiver. Because listen, there's a lot of things like I was not the most athletic guy or best forty or best vertical jump and all that, But I tell you what, I could run and I my conditioning was for days, But damn that gave me that extra condition I need that. I'd go hunt guys up downfield and I'd see some dB trying to lay out a wide receiver or something like that. It's just I knew guys were gunning for me, but I was like, I didn't care. All I cared about was that moment, you know, And the NFL wasn't finding a lot of time. In fact, during that era, I had one fine and it was because there was a dB in Washington, Chris Dishman. We ran a quarterback sneak and he jumped on late to hit Steve McNair and so the play's clearly over. But I'm so pissed that he tried to do that, Like I went full karate kick to the face mask of Dishman. Oh damn. I can remember get in front of the guy in charge of fines for the league, and I'm pleading my case, you know, and he's listening and nodding and the whole deal and five grand man. It was like self defense, Like he came in there trying to hurt me, and I just was trying to get him off me. I wasn't trying to kick. And well are good words, Kevin, but uh, you know the fine sticks and click hung up the phone, you know, and I'm just like I never got one after that. But it taught me that I played in the right era. I couldn't play now. The game is fantastic. I'd love the sack and go out there and still balls if I was in shape. Even if I was I'm not prime. But what kept me in the game around was a lot offensive line coaches just liking what I was doing downfield. It's just added some toughness and nastiness to it. The evil clown who knew daring. Look at my step there, all daring. Come on, darn, don't followed you? Just like that fight song is when it times like yes, yes, oh man, good times, so damn good time. Well that's a two minute drilling, about nine and a half minutes. There's a reason Dan Marino called off to play and told you to figure shit out. Yeah, the play, the game would have been over. We lose the game because I'm asked, what the damn protection is? I'm getting booted off the teams. Then, hey, I'm glad you didn't. You didn't boot me off, man, You need it. I needed my time. I needed to think about it, and you gave me that time. So thank you for the freedom. Absolutely, we can play with space and time in here. That's a good thing about it. Kevin, this was a blast, man, God, this was fun. Like this was really great. I appreciate y'all this t y'all have fun on all these things. And I was excited to be asked to be on it, man, And I never thought that I get to visit with Juice again and Seth and man, it's you do a really good job. Man, it it's really stirred up a lot of feelings in me that you're just thinking back to how special those days were. You're lucky if you can play one down in the NFL. I mean, that's how hard it is. And when you're in that moment and you're putting a career together and you know, you don't think about it till the very end, or you're maybe five ten years retired of like, man, I really did something special. Like so many guys try to get there and just play, you know, one snap of one game or one season, or let me put two or three seasons together. And there's thousands of guys that would love to be in that position, and only a few get to do it. And then to last, you know, especially long as though Jay, myself, other guys that we talked about, like Richard Webb and Dan Marino. It really was a blessing. So I appreciate you guys let me open up and share some stories and just run on. Man, you let me talk, and I appreciate it. Oh, now that we know you have the journals, you might need to come back juice, we might have to repeat it. We didn't really cover ninety eight very much. I got some gold from there, and yeah, we'll get you back in for sure. No, okay, because I don't know if this is I got some some great John Bach ones, Oh, go ahead, go into the books, give us the best thing you got us. Want of stuck out to me. So I'm not sure what season it was or which offensive line I think it was. It was it was Paul Boudreau with the offensive line coach, So it's probably ninety nine season, and you know, we've been playing and maybe it was a time when the offensive line wasn't playing quite as good during the season sometime. And so Bodrow said, you know what, we're gonna watch this game film. I've graded it, but I want each of you to grade your own play sheet as we're going through this. And John played that game, played the entire game, and so basically had to put a plus or minus down like he didn't want a bunch of fluff like explanations comments, Just did you do your job or did you not? I don't care about the technique whatever, did you know what to do and did you get it done? Plus? If you didn't minus. So I come up with this idea, like at the same time, I'm grading myself. But I created a sheet that would be box sheet, and every play I put a plus next to it. But even with the notes that we made about the game on this sheet that we were going to turn into Coach boudro right when the meeting was over, I had written down a bunch of stuff on there about how they coached. Look, I've passed blocked this guy all day long. He never got by me. Hey, coach, take a special look at this play. I think you're gonna see it's a domination block. Put me down for one domination block, more to come. So it was just over the top and he didn't want those comments. But the slickest part about it was I'm like, okay, everybody, send up your sheet here so I can give him the booth sting your booth. So I grabbed his sheet, take kids out and put that fake one in, gave him to boo. The very next meeting, we have boos, like, guys, I got to share something with you. You know, I'm great in the game. And there's one particular player that really had an outstanding game and I'm gonna share with you some comments that he made to me. So he starts sharing all this stuff in box, like, what the you know, what's going on? I didn't do this whatever. He's confused, and we're all just laughing his webs, you know, the whole thing's going on. Anyway. We never cracked Boo for sure. Thought it was either me or Gogan or Web. He's like one of you three, maybe even Ruddy. He's like, only you guys could have masterminded this, Like somehow this happened. I know this to bs or whatever, and we all had a really big laugh out of it. But to see him on the spot for about five minutes there he's going through the sheet, it was. It was unbelievable. I'm gonna tell you this, Kevin Old Lion had the best time. Yeah. I think the personality, I think d Line man, I mean those personalities. Second and now bro, No, this was this was fun. Man. This was spectacular. I think, better than than anybody could have expected. Man. So we definitely got to get you back on. And I really appreciate this. I loved him. I had a great time. God, I appreciate it. Thanks for diving in. Kevin be well man figure, just like Jew said. Thanks for diving into the Fish Tank presented by iHeartRadio. Be sure to follow us on whatever streaming platform you're using, and don't be afraid to rate the show or leave us a comment. We love your feedback, and remember you can find us as well as Drive Time with Travis Wingfield and all of our international partners on Miami Dolphins dot com been at this time